MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Anavar vs Tbol

  • Initiateur de la discussion guest
  • Date de début
Je ne connaissais pas le Desmodium, N2 et Chardon.. Je connais plutôt Clomid, samarin140, Nolvaldex...
Penses tu que le stack peptides frag 176 + cjc1295 + 30/40mg d'Anavar soit suffisant?
 
Pourquoi as tu choisis l'anavar au lieu du Tbol ?
En ce qui me concerne je voulais Tbol, mais un pote du forum m'a conseillé anavar car moins de rétention d'eau....
 
Je n'avais jms entendu parlé de tbol en dehors de ce forum (avant inscription ici) pour moi c'était anavar pour 1st molécule sinon y avait dbol mais too much ES
 
Moi j'ai eu mes infos sur wikistero...et ici, mais peut on prendre de l'anavar sans aucune protection comme certains le pensent? As tu eu des ES ? rétention d'eau ? etc
 
Samson à dit:
mais peut on prendre de l'anavar sans aucune protection comme certains le pensent?
Cliquez pour agrandir...
:eek::eek::eek:
Ce serait comme rouler sur une route de campagne de nuit sans mettre ta ceinture ni tes feux de route...

Il est inenvisageable de ne pas prendre de protection hépatique avec n'importe quel stéroïde oral.
 
C'est bien ce que je pensais aussi, mais puisq'on parle de l'anavar comme un stéro "doux" on a tendance a croire:
1) qu'il n'apporte aucun résultat....faux la preuve toi...
2) qu'il est inoffensif pour le foie archi faux
 
J'avais déjà parlé de ça poto sur mon ancien topic
A des doses corrects elle est bien cette molécule...j'avais fais de longues recherches moi aussi par le passé et ceux qui postaient des reviews sur oxan avec de bons dosage 60mg+ étaient satisfaits...après la diète et le training doivent suivre c'est clair

C'est des conneries qu'il est doux , on parlait de doux car par le passé anavar étaient vendus en pills de 5mg voir 2.5 sauf erreur donc il fallait beaucoup de pills pour avoir qqch de corrects comparés aux autres stero...logique...
En terme d'ES il shutdown quand-même pas mal au doses 60mg et au niveau du cholestérol aussi
Foie ça va de ce que j'avais lu


Tu auras peut-être bientôt un feedback plu détaillé si je repars en cure
 
Et comme disait wiilbit ou kgil à notre niveau d'amateur ni porte quel molécule de stéroïdes en parallèle à une super diète et training devraient faire effets...
Peut-être aurais-je explosé encore plus avec du dbol ou tbol mais non sans es... Ça me suffit pour l'instant l'anavar , peut-être avec une base de testo ça serait mieux pour éviter le shutdown intracure
 
  1. MYTHS

    Myth #1 - Anavar will not suppress the HPTA.
    False. Anavar, used in adequate dosages, will shut you down. To what degree you experience side effects of suppression (loss of libido, lethargy) is entirely dependent upon the individual and the dosages used.

    Myth #2 - Var is a weak anabolic, and is not effective unless stacked with a more androgenic compound.
    This could not be further from the truth. At dosages of 40mg a day and higher, anavar is incredibly effective at adding water free LBM. At around day 6-7, increased vascularity should become apparent (assuming your oxandrolone is legitimate in its dosing), and strength gains should start appearing around day 14.
    If used during a clean bulk, gains of 10-20 pounds are possible. If cutting, you will maintain weight, or even put on 5-10 pounds (depending on the rate of fat loss/severity of diet). You will keep all of your gains with proper PCT.

    Myth #3 - Anavar will not require any type of PCT.
    This is one ive never understood. It's a pretty commonly known fact now that var is a suppressive compound. So why is it that some individuals still refuse to make a small investment in some clomid/nolva....this is your testicular function we're talking about. That said, PCT required for var is not as "heavy" as PCT for, say, a test/eq cycle. 15-20 days @ 50mg clomid should be sufficient.


    LIBIDO

    The only real issue of concern that i have found when running anavar alone is slight libido suppression. Anavar is suppressive enough to where you WILL feel a difference in your sex drive (and not for the better ) when using 40+mg a day. There are three options to counteract this.

    #1 - Tribulus + Avena Sativa - Trib at 4-7g a day and Avena Sativa at 3-4g a day tend to help prevent any loss in performance or ability to get it up. However, using effective dosages is going to end up being as or more expensive than options 2 or 3...but its your call.

    #2 - Proviron - If hairloss is an issue in your choice to use anavar, then you may want to avoid this one. But 25mg ED proviron, starting after week 2, will keep you rock hard. And it will help to harden up your muscles too .

    #3 - Maintenance Test Dosage - Finally, you could choose to use testosterone to keep your willy in shape. At a dosage of around 200mg, split bi weekly, everything should keep running smoothly. Also, this will contribute to your gains much moreso than than options 1 or 2. I would keep nolva onhand on the off chance that you are severely gyno prone. Bloating should not be an issue at this dosage.

    BENEFITS

    Anavar is a badass drug. This is why.

    #1 - Vascularity
    Oxandrolone will make you veiny as all hell. And quickly. Look out for brand new bulging forearms veins by around day 6. If you are following a cutting regimen, expect new spider webs in your chest, shoulders and quads by around day 21.

    #2 - Pumps
    When on var, the pumps are constant. Bored sitting in class/at work? Do some unweighted calf raises. After about three minutes, your calves will be ready to pop. Youll be doing something like drinking a cup of water, and after a minute of holding it, your bi will be completely full and pumped. You may have to cut some sets short in the gym due to the painful pumpage.

    #3 - Strength
    Even when cutting, you can expect new strength gains every workout after about day 14-21.

    #4 - Fat Loss
    Anavar has been shown to contribute to accelerated fat loss in both subcutaneous and visceral fat, concentrated effects in the abdomen and thigh area. And if youve used the drug, you can attest to this...if you cant sport the 6-8 pack look on var, its not gonna happen .

    CYCLE

    Anavar should be run @ at least 40mg a day to see all of the benefits it offers. Dosages upwards of 80mg have been shown to exhibit diminishing returns. Also, i cant imagine the intensity of the pumps at that kind of dosage.


    LIVER PROTECTION

    Anavar is a 17 Alpha Alkylated steroid, and is toxic. It has been shown to be less toxic than other orals, and is even used as liver treatment for recovering alcoholics. Still, i would limit my time using it to 8 weeks, 10 at the most.

    It would be beneficial to you liver to use several different OTC supplements during, and perhaps after your cycle. A few preventive measures never hurt anyone .

    1 - Milk ThistleThe classic liver protectant herb.supposedly works by blocking the entrance of harmful substances to liver cells, and hastening their expulsion. Make sure there is a high standardization of Silymarin

    2 - R ALA
    A powerful antioxidant

    3 - NAC
    Supports liver function and production of l-glutathione

    4 - Vitamin C and E
    Antioxidants

    5 - LOADS of water
    Helps to flush out your entire system

    LIPID PROTECTION

    Anavar isnt going to kill your cholesterol levels like some drugs (winny being one of the worst), but it may put your LDL/HDL profiles outside of the normal range. There are a few things that help, but as long as your not using 60+mg daily or running it for more than 10 weeks, i would just use flax...

    1 - Flax Oil
    Consuming lots of essential fatty acids promotes overall health, as well as helping to keep your lipid profile from becoming too bad.

    2 - Policosanol
    Used at 20mg daily to keep your HDL (good cholesterol) levels from crashing, and your LDL from becoming too high.

    3 - Niacin
    Preferably the flush free variety. If you wish, niacin can be used at 1-2g ED for a short period post-cycle to normalize HDL levels. Do not use for more than 7-14 days, as liver toxicity can be an issue when using those dosages of niacin for long periods of time


  2. Necrosaro     said:05-11-2009 01:51 PM
    Also some more information about it!

    What is the highest recommended dose for bodybuilding purposes?

    The consensus is that anything over 80mg shows extreme diminishing returns.

    Does oxandrolone supress your HPTA (natural testosterone production)?

    Yes. Research shows as little as 2.5mg can supress in some folks. As far as the effects of this lowered test production, at 40mg a day, I would say that it's pretty much split evenly. Half of people will attest to loss of sex drive and testicular shrinkage late cycle, while about half attest that they retained sexual drive without any shrinkage. Bridging users be forewarned.

    Reference: (Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

    Is clomid needed post cycle?

    Yes. This should be apparent from the above question. You may find that 50mg/day for two weeks is enough however.

    Oxandrolone and liver damage. What's the deal?

    There is room for serious debate here. Oxandroline is 17-alpha-alkylated, so it's starting off on a bad foot. Oxandrolone has shown to cause liver values to sway outside of the "normal zone" for some posters (which may or may not indicate liver toxicity, this is debatable), however, the insert also states that oxandrolone can alter blood test results. I would treat this drug as liver toxic, supplimenting with a lot of ALA, Liver Detox, etc. However, this drug has also been used at 80mg/day to treat (and reverse!) liver damage in alcohol abusers. Hard to say what this means. My advice is to play it safe and treat it like any other 17aa oral.

    Reference: (1: Am J Gastroenterol 1991 Sep;86(9):1200-8, A randomized, controlled trial of treatment of alcoholic hepatitis with parenteral nutrition and oxandrolone. I. Short-term effects on liver function. Bonkovsky HL, Fiellin DA, Smith GS, Slaker DP, Simon D, Galambos JT.)


    Cholesterol? Heart attack time?

    User experience seems to point to the fact that prolonged use does bring your good cholesterol down and your bad cholesterol up. Take your flax seed oil.

    "Also, because oral steroids can decrease the "good" HDL cholesterol and increase the "bad" LDL cholesterol, oral steroids can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). If you use oral anabolic steroids consider taking 400 to 800 IU of Vitamin E, and 1,000 to 2,000 mg. of Vitamin C with each meal. These vitamin antioxidants help to protect cholesterol from the oxidation that is associated with CVD."

    (Oxandrin May Cause Liver Toxicity, by Michael Mooney (Original article in issue #7, October, 1998. Updated July, 2001)

    Will grapefruit speed absorbtion?

    Naringen present in grapefruit juice has shown to increase absorbtion of 17 alpha-ethinylestradiol (EE2), however, it is pure speculation as to its effects are similar in 17-alpha-alkylated substances. Hey, it cant hurt!

    (Can grapefruit juice influence ethinylestradiol bioavailability? Author: Weber A; J¨ager R; B¨orner A; Klinger G; Vollanth R; Matthey K; Balogh A)


    What about the different brands of Oxandrolone floating around? What to choose?
    ** "10mg tabs" Street price: ~$.40/"10mg"

    This product must be chewed says the "manufacturer". This product is underdosed, and of dubious purity and consistency. Lab results on a test done on another board showed the pills to contain a little over 4mg of oxandrolone.

    BTG/SPA 2.5mg tabs. Street price: 1-2$ per pill.

    Exceptional results can be obtained with this product using signifigantly lower doses (e.g. 25mg instead of 40mg). This can probobly be attributed to greater absorbtion via proprietary "delivery systems". Outstanding product if you can afford it.

    Spanish Generic 10mg caps. Street price: $1/cap.

    Nothing but positive feedback so far. Tested within pharm. margin of error (+-10%). Here are the results. These are great if you can still get them.

    Percentage OX: 4.42%
    Percentage moisture: 2.1%

    Total OX content: 9.55mg

    (Credit goes to Fonz.)

    Ttokkyo Labs. 5mg tabs. Street price: around 1.50 each.

    Consistent, well dosed product. Does not seem to have the absorbtion or potency of the BTG/SPA product. Because of the extreme cost, I would never choose this over BTG or SPA except for availability issues.

    Side effects?

    Common side effects you should be prepared for: Appetite loss, stomach discomfort, increase skin "grease". I personally suffered extreme loss of appetite, but no stomach discomfort. Appetite came back in 1 week.

    Rarer side effects: acne

    Overall, this is an extremely mild drug. You should experience virtually no side effects. Those you do experience will diminish over time.

    As ulter once said "safer then baby food".

    How long before it kicks in?

    Individual thing. Varies on product line as well. BTG hits quickest, ** slowest if at all.

    I noticed vascularity and hardness within 2-3 days with generics, and strength in 2.5 weeks. Huck saw strength in 3 days on BTG. Wait about 3 weeks for the full effect before you get dissapointed.

    Vascularity and hardness will come quick, it's very nice. I had spiderweb viens on my pecs that I've never seen before in just 3 days on Ox.

    What is this drug used for?

    Involuntary weight loss. HIV, AIDS, burns etc. Liver treatment in severe alcohol induced liver damage.

    What is the halflife of Ox?

    ~9 hours.

    When should ox be dosed?

    There are two camps.

    Camp 1: Take it all in the morning. The rationale is that your blood concentrations will 'fall off' by the time you go to bed, which will limit HPTA impact during this crucial "recentering" time for your body.

    Camp 2: Spread it out evenly through the day. This will keep blood concentrations steady. Plus, don't we want that nice anabolic substance in our veins during our growth at night?

    My comments: With a halflife of 9 hours, this issue is virtually meaningless. The ideas used in "camp 1" apply well when you have a substance with a 3 hour halflife (dbol), (e.g. if 30mg of dbol is taken at 9am, only about 1 miligram is left in your bloodstream by bedtime. great.) I don't think things pan out so well with a 9 hour halflife drug. If 40mg is taken at 9am, at bedtime you will have approximately 10mg or more in your bloodstream. You would have about 15 at bedtime if you took it 4 times evenly through the day. I don't think you are giving your body any dropoff at night anyway.

    Conclusion: Take it whenever you want. Choose the camp you agree with and do it, things will work out.


    What gains can I expect?

    Individual question. I've heard of folks with no gain in lbm, I've heard of a 15lb gain. It all depends on your diet, brand, etc. However, don't expect this to pack 3 times the punch of a sust/dbol cycle because it costs 3 times as much. .

    This question is actually pretty silly, so I won't delve into it.
    You CAN expect hardness and vascularity.

    How about doses for women?

    Go scope out the Womens discussion. However, from the grape vine I've heard of dosages starting at 2.5mg/day ramping up to 10mg/day. I wouldn't recommend more. I know little about anabolics in women though. Don't use anything but BTG/SPA. The cost is so small with female dosages and the damage done to a women's body from counterfiets is far too great. Overmore, you can't dose small amounts accurately with 10mg caps/tabs.


    How long is a typical Oxandrolone cycle?

    Most tend to agree longer is better with Ox. 6 weeks seems to be the minimum, while 10 weeks is recommended and common. Over 10 weeks might be stressful on the ole' liver.
 
Très intéressant cet article, je l'avais lu une fois je ne sais plus ou et puis impossible de remettre la main dessus ;)..la j'ai bien fait du copier coller sur mon ordi....
Alors ton anavar, tu te le procure où?
 
Le nouveau stock de chez musclesfax
Le première du lab Estopharma c'était directement à un fournisseur...j'ai eu du bol avec le recul car c'est une molécule très souvent coupée avec d'autres car chères
 
Hello BlackRogue,
Désolé du retard, je n'avais pas vu ta réponse..merci encore du retour..
Je m'intéressais vraiment à l'anavar pour le combiner à ma cure de peptides mais après réflexion je vais d'abord finir celle ci et faire l'anavar une autre fois histoire de voir les résultats de chaque cure séparément..
 
Coucou,
Bon je suis sur le point de faire susta 375mg/w sur 8week et anavar 70 ED sur 6week
Le prix me fait aussi hésiter avec le Turi qui m'avait bien réussi avec 50mg.
50mg de turi vs 70mg d'anavar, vous diriez que cela vaut le coup de prendre l'anavar? C'est pour sécher mais cool sans exagérer sur les restrictions.
 
Je dirais fais ton expérience lol plus je potasse et plus les avis sont tellement contrasté et aléatoires selon les utilisateurs...
Je parle de carnet de cure (review) avec plans détaillés et retours sur PDS , pas de qu'en dira-t-on...
 
Samson à dit:
Hello BlackRogue,
Désolé du retard, je n'avais pas vu ta réponse..merci encore du retour..
Je m'intéressais vraiment à l'anavar pour le combiner à ma cure de peptides mais après réflexion je vais d'abord finir celle ci et faire l'anavar une autre fois histoire de voir les résultats de chaque cure séparément..
Cliquez pour agrandir...
Pourras-tu faire des pds et autres intracure si ton budget te le permet pour voir comment agis l'anavar sur toi ? Je compte en faire une prochainement avec un review et plusieurs pds intracure pour vraiment voir dans quelle circonstance et à quel dosage cette molécule agi sur mon corps
 
Franchement plus je lis et experimente et regarde autour de moi, moin je trouve cela contraster.
D'ailleurs hier en achetant deux trois complements on c'est retrouver a 4 mecs sous steroid dans la boutique du coup comme c'est le Canada direct ca parle sans aucun taboo chacun parle de ses cycles en publique devant les potes , les copines mdr

Et les mecs sont 200% Tbol, Win, Anadrol en fonction de l'objectif.

Pour l'Anavar le soucis : Pas assez puissant, obliger de monter sur des dosages super elever, coup du cycle qui reviens 2 a 3 fois plus cher que Tbol ou Win et pas pris en solo.

@Dard De Ville Les deux seuls cas ou pour moi Anavar est l'option 1 c'est si pratique d'un sport a coter notament un sport ou il y a une categorie de poids a pas depasser ou un sport de force ou d'explosiviter car Anavar fait moin congestioner que le Tbol donc c'est plus conveniant, il fait prendre tres peu de poids comparer a beaucoup de molecule egalement.
Enfin l'autre cas c'est dans le cadre d'une seche notament sur une fin de cycle. Dans tout les autres cas je vois pas trop l'interet.

Apres il est efficace mais dans un but tres precis c'est une molecule interessante mais pas polyvalente.

Stacker a Testo + Masteron ou Testo + EQ il apporte de jolie choses.
 
On ne sera jms d'accord mon poto sur oxan hihi
Enfin je vous redirai mes conclusions à ma prochaine en mode sèche légère ;)
 
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