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[havah]

Parceque tes couilles fonctionnent bien donc pas besoin de les stimuler

C est comme pour ta thyroïde

 

[guest]

Parceque tes couilles fonctionnent bien donc pas besoin de les stimuler

C est comme pour ta thyroïde

Ok faut que je creuse un peu de ce côté-là... J'ai encore quelques lacunes du fonctionnement exact de nos couilles. Mais merci pour les infos poto.

 

[havah]

J te laisse chercher
Mais pas de soucis elles sont en forme

 

[guest]

Autre article intéressant sur les cycles courts :

"WHAT MAKES A CYCLE SHORT

Short cycles are steroid cycles that do not exceed 4 weeks ,with 2-3 weeks "on" preferred.

WHY DO SHORT CYCLES

The main reason is to limit the negative health impact that steroids DO have on users.
For those of you that don't get lab work done while on steroids I would have you know that steroid use causes a very bad shift in the lipid profile. HDL(good cholesterol) which acts like a sticky sweeping broom to sweep up bad LDL (bad cholesterol) and prevent plaque build up on atery walls, goes EXTREMELY LOW in, dare I say, ALL MEN. Not only this but LDL levels usually climb and this is combo is not good.
Short cycles still cause a crappy lipid shift but not to the same degree as the long cycle. Also less time "On" means less time for potential aterial plaque build up.
After my last long cycle of 8 weeks I had some blood work done and my doc HAD A COW as my hdl to total cholesterol ratio was extremely poor.

There isn't a damn thing you can do to significantly avoid this....you can take niacin , flax oil , do cardio and have a pefect diet low in saturated fat and you will STILL get a very ****ty lipid profile.

So a very bad lipid profile with high ldl and rock bottom hdl is a SIGNIFICANT risk factor for aterial plaque build up and heart disease. As a side....anyone that thinks "Arny" only got his aortic valve done doesn't have a clue. I know for a fact that he had a coronary bypass as I have worked with members of the heart team that did his operation.

True there are other risk factors for heart disease but this is a big one and well documented as well.

HEW!!! Next ...short cycles limit other side effects like hair loss, acne, high Blood pressure and resulting kidney stress, testicular shrinkage and poor HPTA rebound.

Also short cycles are a heck of a lot easier on the old liver especially if 17aa orals are used....got to love d-bol he he he !

WHAT SHORT CYCLES ARE NOT

Short cycles will not result in bigger gains. Short cycles will not allow one to be competive in todays national level competitions. Short cycles will not give you 30 pounds of bulk at one time.

WHAT SHORT CYCLES CAN DO

Short cycles can give you decent gains that are FAR better than what you could attain to as a natural. Gains of 10 pounds are not infrequently kept form a short cycle with the novice or those that are not at least very close to their natural maximum weight.

Short cycles will allow a much quicker HPTA recovery than a long cycle and this allows one to kepp a higher percentage of ones gains. In fact full testosterone rebound often happens in but a week. Gains often continue in the weeks after the short cycle is over simply because ones natural test production often jumps a little higher than normal becuase the pituitary really hammers out the LH and the testes have not shunk.
My natural test production is quite good for a man of 40, at 550. I tested my test level a week after I stopped a 14 day cycle and it had rebonded to 650 from the immediate pre cycle 550. On day 15 it was down to 54!

How many of you bro's have experience gains AFTER coming off a 8 weeker...not a one I would say.

Lets face it bro's if you gain 25 -30 pouns of bulk in a long cycle you sure the hell aren't going to be able to hang onto more than 15 of those pounds over the next 6 months unless you were WAY WAY under your potential to begin with.

BEFORE DOING SHORT CYCLES.....

learn how to train and gain WITHOUT steroids. This is critical! IF one knows how to train without gear then adding a small amount of gear over a short period of time can result in great gains.
Trouble is almost nobody knows how to gain without steroids so they do the large doses over long periods of time to compensate for their chronic over training and poor training, habits.

ORIGIN OF SHORT CYCLES AND VARIATIONS

Well I am sure that there have always been men that used short cycles but the first one that I know of that actually spoke up on the matter was NELSON MONTANA, formerly of ******.

NELSON MONTANA advocated, and still does advocate, cycles of 3 weeks in length. Modest doses are used of 1000mg per week TOTAL or less. Injectables and orals are used. Usually the injectable is in a long acting ester and not injected once per week but several times per week in smaller doses as he belives this is better for anabolism. Nelsons favorite steroid is PRIMO but he does like sust, d-bol, winny and anavar . He will not use or recommend vet steroids like EQ or tren . He does not recommend nandrolone .

Nelson believes three weeks will offers the best trade off between gains and sides. He thinks two weeks "on" is not quite enough time "on"
His favorite combo's are sust/d-bol or primo/anavar.

Here is an example of Nelsons three weeker.

WEEK ONE
DAY ONE sust 250mg, day 3 primo 100mg, day 5 primo 100mg, day 7 primo 100mg. 25 of d-bol in divided doses per day.

WEEK TWO
Test cyp or enanthate 100mg, day 10 primo 100mg and day 12 primo 100mg, day 14 primo 100mg. 25 of winny per day

WEEK THREE
day 16 primo 100, day 18 primo 100, day 20 primo 100 and day 22 primo 100 and also anavar 25 per day

Notice how the cycle uses weaker orals as the weeks go on and the non aromatizable and weker primo . This is to limit inhibition to some degree AND also to limit water gain for good post cycle lean tissue realization

WEEK FOUR ...OPTIONAL
25 of proviron for 5 days and only in the am. This is to help with sex drive, prevent estrogen back lash and act as a mild form of a taper. 25 mg only done in the am is not very inhibitory. I like its ability to ward off estrogen rebound post cycle.

Nelson does not believe that clomid is necessary after his cycles and may actually cause harm in some men.

The above is a complicated cycle that is not cheap but Nelson thinks it is the ultimate short cycle. Similar but cheaper short cycle s can be based on the MONTANA METHOD.

IN COMES BILL ROBERTS!!!

Now Bill Roberts has been preaching short cycles for some time know, but not as long as Nelson. He says that he was taught his method but a Greek physicain that trains athletes in Europe. It is strange that he never even mentions Nelson and his method and this tells me that he may have stolen the idea from Nelson in the first place.

Anyway Roberts recommends higher doses of strickly short acting injectables and powerful orals. Front loading injectables is recommended.
Roberts is a big believer in clomid post cycle. He also believes in using HCG if cycles are long or less than 4 weeks are taken between repeated two week cycles ,so as to prevent testicular shrinkage and the resulting poor HPTA recovery.

Roberts believes that after two weeks the pituitary becomes inhibited and not just the testes and hypothalamus and thus he recommends 14 days "on" as the limit IF you are striving for very rapid HPTA recovery.

I have used the "Roberts" cycles with good success as have many others including a few of my close friends but I plan on trying Nelsons method soon.

ROBERTS EXAMPLES


Day one, tren front loaded at 150mg and then tren 75 mg per day through day 12.
Dbol 50 mg per day in divided doses through day 14.
Clomid therapy starting day 15 and for 4 weeks or three weeks if clomid was used as an anti estrogen during the "on" weeks. He will also use estrogen inhibitors if aromatization is expected to be high.

Second example for the larger man...
Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-150mg per day for 11 days. Tren 150mg per day on day one and then 50-75 per day for 12 days, winstrol 50 mg per day for 14 days.

Other combo's include Tren/winny., test/d-bol winny., Tren/winny /d-bol....etc etc..

Notice that no long acting injectable is used. This is done to allow for a very rapid post cycle elimination of androgens so as to prevent additional lengthening of the cycle. This is Key point in the Roberts two weeker because he believes that any time "on" past two weeks will not allow for the most rapid HPTA recovery. He goes so far as to say that recovery after three week "on" is not especially quicker than recover after 8 weeks "on"

Roberts sites many examples of 7-10 plus pounds kept from his two weekers.

The man that is above his natural max weight (ie: 5'9-10 " and a leanish 190) cannot expect to gains 10 pounds in two weeks but 5 pounds in not uncommon.

NOTE>>> Both Roberts and Montana recommend at least 4 weeks off between these cycles. Roberts does say that two weeks off can be okay, but if repeated two weekers are done then HCG should be used during the cycle at 500iu's per day to prevent testicular shrinkage over the months.

So try short cycles if you are really concerned about your health and want to minimize the risks of steroid use, yet still wish to use steroids , and if you want to keep a higher percentage of your gains from a cycle.

Good luck and I hope this clears a few things up

posted by REALGAINS again

2 week cycles HOW & WHY
I decided to try 2 week cycles after reading about them in Mesorx.com and ******.com. Bill Roberts got the idea from a Greek doctor and strength/ athletic coach.
I am tired of my VERY crappy lipid profiles while "on" traditional cycles and have decided to stick to 2 week cycles and moderate 8 weeks cycles with mild non 17aa roids AAS like EQ.. and maybe low doses test.

Bill Roberts posts a study done on "Jim" at mesorx.com that showed very favorable results and no sides effects to speak of.

WHY DO VERY SHORT CYCLES

Short cycles, properly done, WILL give decent results, not huge results but pretty good none the less.
These cycles will interest the very health conscious, those that wish to reduce their steroid use, and the paranoid newbie. They would also appeal the "athlete" looking for some extra stength, size and speed.
Those that get really messed up lipid profiles while "on" longer cycles should also consider very short cycles.
They are NOT for the highly competitive bodybuilder BTW.

Bill Roberts has noted that liver enzymes do not elevate much at all, even while using 50 of d-bol per day, and lipid profiles do not change much. Also the very short time "on' would negate the adverse affects of a poor lipid profile IMHO.
Also Roberts has discussed how the pituitary is not shut down after only 14 days "on" and is even hypersensitive to GnRH form the hypothalamus and thus natural test recovery is very rapid.
Testicular shrinkage is not an issue with 2 week cycles so the testes respond very well to LH post cycle.
So the testes do stop putting out test but recovery is very rapid.

Roberts also points out that "Jim", in his study on Mesorx.com ,had his test levels come back slightly higher than his normal after a week of clomid therapy.
I have noticed that test recovery is indeed VERY rapid post cycle and I seem to be able to continue with gains in strength post cycle. Perhaps this is due to a hyper-responsive pituitary.

How many of you have been able to gain well post cycle with clomid after a traditional long cycle...I suppose none really.


HOW TO DO THEM

Hormone levels need to be high right out of the gate with 2 week cycles as we have no time to wait/waste. With that in mind one needs to limit the choice of hormones to those that are in very rapid acting form. Clearance needs to be rapid as well and these "fit the bill". If clearance is not rapid then you are actually "on' for longer than two weeks and the super rapid test recovery may be impossible. After two weeks the pituitary seems to become inhibited as well as the hypothalamus and testes.
Also we need to use powerful androgens to see best results.

This leaves OUT Deca , EQ, Test cyp/enanthate/sust and the like.
Good choices are Test prop, Tren, winstrol and all the powerful orals like d-bol.

Front loading is important.

Examples.

test prop at 300mg on day one and then 100-125 per day through day 11 and then stop. Tren at 150 on day one and then 75-80 per day through day 12 and then stop. Clomid on day 15 and for 4 "off " weeks.

Tren as above and d-bol 50mg per day in 4-5 divided doses through day 14 and then clomid on day 15.

OR tren/winstrol/
OR test/d-bol
There are many combo's

Larger doses can be used by those that are above their natural max weights.

WHAT TO EXPECT
Well the man that is well above his natural maximum weight cannot expect much but can keep a very solid 3-4 pounds of pure muscle. I have kept 5 pounds however.
For those that are not yet at their natural max weight (5'9" and a lean 190...adding 7 pounds for every inch above 5'9") A keeping gain of up to 8-10 pounds can be achieved as long as training, diet and rest are spot on. Jim at mesorx.com kept about 9 pounds I believe and lots of strength, and he didn't even do heavy leg work!
With these 2 weekers your seem to keep a higher percentage of the gain and this is likely due to very rapid natural test recovery.

One can be "on" two week cycles all year round pretty safely as long as 4-6 weeks off are taken between cycles. You could do 2 "on" 2 "off" but I would suspect that some testicular shrinkage would results after a few cycles so if you want to do this then take HCG at 500iu's per day while "on"

Best of gains and health to you all.

Be safe




We only use one type of eight week bulk cycle. That for Boldenone , which now can only be obtained in a very long halflife ester. We are working with a supplier, and are patiently awaiting him to provide us with our first esterless Boldenone. Testing will begin immediately afterwards, to develop new dosage and protocols, following which, we expect to end our use of nandrolone phenylpropionate. Too many of our clients exhibit some degree of bloat from progesterone aromatization, emerging from the nandrolone. We consider any bloat, from any origin, entirely unacceptable, on health and esthetic grounds.

Body fat gain on cycles:
Ever notice how productive of muscle a cycle usually is, during the first four weeks, and how it slows down and body fat accumulates during the second four weeks? You end up eating more in the attempt to return things to the former rate. More body fat. Finally, the whole process slows down for good. What's going on? The common explanation is that you are getting bigger, so that requires more nutrition. We say no. We say the body realizes what is going on, it exhausts and compensates, and body metabolism and developmental processes simply will no longer support this process. But you continue to eat. And that food has got no place else to go, but be turned into fat, with unproductive lbm production.


What's infinitely more interesting than Sheldon's view on somatotype permanency, is his assertion that somatotype and temperament are somehow intertwined. I'll use the example of a mesomorph's temperament because it leads to an amusing corollary involving Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Our short cycle designs, whether for 2, 3, or 4 weeks features tren, as a foundation, which is a potent fat burner, due to powerful androgenicity, and will not aromatize to estrogen. And a diet, which is clean, and appropriately sized for rational lbm gain, while minimizing conversion to fat. Later, the body is clean of AAS, and primed for most sensitive and effective response, before the cycle begins. The conversion from nutrition to muscle takes place under optimum conditions, at low body fat levels. The AAS ramp-up is swift and full, and the cycle ends before the system can desensitize and cause spillover of nutrition to body fat.

Estrogen pileup is another cause of body fat accumulation, during the typical 8 week, long halflife ester cycle. I suggest that readers visit the AE zine Issue 46, and download the blood concentration calculator from the excellent article on blood concentration of various halflife esters of AAS. Then, plug in your long halflife ester cycle components, and witness the startling blood level concentrations of what you are injecting, late in the cycle. Using the typical paltry anti-e dosages of the typical BBer, is it any wonder that, late in the cycle, estrogen levels build up out of control, and body fat follows?

Estrogen and anti-e:
It is an obsolete belief that estrogen is necessary in any cycle. Indeed, ANY amount of estrogen is BAD in any cycle! There is not one study which supports the notion. But the idea lived on in yet another obsolete notion; that water weight is good weight, in a cycle. That, water introduced into the muscle, causes increased lifts, and by lifting heavier, greater growth is obtained. The experts would purposely advise minimal amounts of anti-estrogen drugs, only to minimize the chance of gyno, but to insure lots of this, supposedly, desirable water weight. On the AE boards, I have witnessed these experts advising NO anti-e's, but only to have some Nolvadex at hand, to deal with gyno, should it appear. Not only do you end up with fake strength and fake muscle size, but, at the same time, the estrogen buildup causes high blood pressure, electrolyte imbalance, and a host of health issues. There is water buildup in the lower back to the extent that posts frequently document BBers in pain, cramps, and difficulty, attempting deads. The champions of this approach say "Oh just take some ibuprofen, and you will be just fine". Try asking your liver what it thinks about that approach. Following the cycle, the water disappears, along with the strength and size it fooled the user into believing was real muscle. This often causes depression, and chases the user into a course of creatine, to re-introduce that fake size and strength. The muscle character appears smooth, and the density is poor. When the BBer diets down, all this is lost, and the truth is seen. It's no wonder that certain other experts advise that BBers never come off AAS, so this scenario may never be exposed for what it is: a rollercoaster of reality versus water weight. I agree with them. It is not healthy to run back and forth between lost size and fullness caused by water weight. But it also is not a good thing to stay on AAS, all the time, either. This is a totally brain dead approach to AAS use. And the BBer who engages in it never attains the quality, defined physique he deserves. It's just a lot of smooth water weight and high body fat.

And body fat. Everyone should know that the presence of excess estrogen causes fat deposition. The greater and the longer the exposure to elevated levels of estrogen, the greater the body fat accumulation. Endos, listen up; stay away from any situation which creates elevated estrogen levels. Everyone, listen up; it is OBSOLETE cycle technology to enable anything but minimal levels of estrogen, at any time. Estrogen is evil, and it is NOT your friend. Using anti-e's cannot reduce estrogen to levels below which the male body cannot function properly. It requires very little estrogen to function, and no anti-e removes it all.

What to do? Begin, with an entirely different approach. Say that ANY water weight is BAD weight. That estrogen must be banished, to the fullest rational extent. And that the muscle you grow and see is, in fact, muscle, and not water. That the muscle produced will be dense and well defined. A quality physique. How, then does one obtain that increased strength, which the water provided, to enhance growth during the cycle? As stated, we first kill off the estrogen and bloat. Second, we emphasize the introduction of powerful androgens into the cycle structure. I am speaking, once again, of tren and anavar. Together, these components make you VERY strong. And with NO bloat or estrogen required. The concentrated androgenicity encourages intense, aggressive workouts, while also encouraging fat burning. It is very commonplace to observe body recompositions during such cycles. In other words, you get big and lose body fat, simultaneously. The androgenicity also produces significantly increased muscle density and definition. At cycle end, what you end up with, is the real deal. Solid muscle, growth, and increased definition. No need to rush to the nearest container of creatine to stem your losses. And that strength is yours, to keep. And no test.....

Now, go back to that blood concentration calculator, and compare the blood concentrations of the typical 75 mg EOD of tren, to what you were subjecting yourself to, with that long halflife ester cycle. No stress caused by estrogen pileup, either. Now, you tell me which alternative is better.

What do we use to suppress estrogen? Well, we formerly used Arimidex . Arimidex is now an antique for us. We use Femara. We prefer one 2.5 mg tab ED. Our clients are kept dry as a bone. We will begin to study Aromasin , in mid-September. Aromasin utilizes a different approach to Estrogen control, which promises to be even more powerful than Femara. But research indicates that IGF-1 production is not suppressed by Femara, but may, in fact, be enhanced by it. We do not see that with Aromasin. Time and experimentation will tell.

Most importantly, we keep our people on anti-e, post cycle, during the HTPA recovery process, and later. This both speeds recovery of the HTPA, as well as minimizing fat buildup, while hormone levels fluctuate wildly.

Androgenicity and quality:
BBers commonly justify their long cycles by saying that they need the long cycle to enable "consolidation". They observe that this effect only occurs late in the cycle. Why is this? It's because the androgen level of the Sustanon test, typically used, takes that long to pile up and affect the muscularity of the BBer. But what about Trenbolone ? Almost without fail, users commonly report density and hardening to appear within a few weeks. Why is this? Because the androgenic response of tren is so much more powerful than that of test. You can get this response to produce quality muscle at dosages of only 75 mg EOD, in less than a month. In a Sustanon test, it takes many weeks to accumulate an immense blood concentration, to achieve the same result. It is commonplace to observe tren users burning fat, while they cycle. Sust users never report this effect. Why? Once again, the androgenic response of tren is so much greater than that of test. Intense androgenicity induces fat burning. If Anavar is added, the androgenicity effect is intensified, still further.

Ever hear of the term "muscle maturity"? It describes muscle which is dense and defined. The commonly accepted belief is that it takes years and years to acquire this muscle characteristic. But why? Because, using test, the exposure to the muscle hardening androgenicity only occurs for about two weeks in the typical long cycle. And that cycle can only be repeated a few times a year. In the tren/anavar-based short cycle, the exposure to muscle hardening androgenicity occurs for longer periods, and the cycle can be repeated many times a year. "Muscle maturity", and quality, appears with rapidity, and not with years and years. I see muscle quality in only one year of regular short cycling, which I never see in the typical long cycle BBer, unless it occurs for years. Which would you prefer?

The issue of health:
There are those who say the typical American method of cycling, using long acting ester cycles, for 8 weeks or more, and eating 7-8000 calories per day, for all that time, is no danger to health. To that, I say this: in the millions of years of human evolution, at no time, ever, has the male of our species been exposed to the barrage of hormonal, metabolic, and developmental pressure and manipulation, as occurs during the long acting ester eight week cycle. Do you really believe our bodies were engineered and evolved to deal with this attack, as well as the stress of being forced to add 20-40 pounds of lbm and body fat in this same time span, over and over, again? Don't be a fool. If you believe so, then you are whistling past the cemetery. And there are additional fools, who would have you believe that staying on this course, continuously, can do you no harm. There is currently an unprecedented, uncontrolled lab experiment, taking place all over the world, with thousands of men as lab rats. The long term outcome cannot be predicted by anyone, today. True, every single one of us will die, someday. My people and I have no intention of hastening the arrival of that inevitable day, just to look big in a coffin, as we are laid to our eternal rest. What the hell is YOUR hurry? And, what if you don't die? What if you are forced to leave your beloved sport, and spend the rest of your days, living with hypertension and heart damage due to tachycardia? And kidney damage caused by the hypertension. And still other health issue possibilities. Is this any way to live? It's a personal value judgment and risk assessment process. Step back for a moment, and re-evaluate your position and priorities.

The end game:
One other matter, which few consider. Everyone has a genetically pre-programmed maximum of lbm, which their body will support, regardless of whether you reach it via AAS. The faster you approach it, the sooner your gains will decline, no matter how much juice you cycle, and how often you cycle it. You will end up spending money, juicing larger quantities of gear, and stressing your body, for diminishing returns. Finally, you are tapped out. All the slin, growth hormone , IGF-1, and whatever else you toss at it, will never get you past that limit. In a minority of individuals, they will attain immense lbm gains, over time. The rest of us, face the remainder of our BBing careers, re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. All we accomplish is staying right where we are, until we leave the sport in frustration.

BBing is a sport for life. Why exhaust yourself and your body, in a hurry to arrive at the end of the journey, earlier than you need to? I'm 48 years old, and I look forward to growing and growing, for as long as I remain in the sport. We have a 65 year old client, who last competed 11 years ago. We did a few short cycles with him, dieted and prepped him, and he walked away with a second prize trophy, healthy and happy. Have any of you ever considered that you might still be able to lift and compete at that age? You better forget it, if all you can think of is slamming on endless pounds, today and tomorrow. Your time in BBing will either end in poor health, or the frustration of having reached your limit, and going no further.

Summary:
I have presented, above, only the most basic introduction to my philosophy and approach to short cycling, and offered only a simple example out of a program which I spent years developing. I have devised an entire series of special-purpose cycles, each of which embody most, if not all, of the above principles.

The purpose of the short cycle is to employ moderate dosages of short halflife ester and esterless injectable and oral AAS, combined with moderate and healthy diet, to promote moderate stress anabolic growth, over time. This same process results in very high quality muscle production, which only increases with each cycle, and minimal health impact. It assumes a long term outlook. It is intended for the mature and rational BBer, who expects to remain in the sport for the rest of his life. If you truly love BBing, you never want to leave, and you want to keep your interest and grow, then consider how the short cycle might be what you need for your future in our beloved sport.

Finally:
I want to take the time to publicly thank my very special friends and clients, who put their faith in me, and assisted me by using my protocols. Through their invaluable feedback and experience, they enabled me to refine and perfect my overall program. Without them, this all would be nothing but theory. Some are former and present members of this fine board.

And thank you, for taking the time to read all these words. I hope they help you in your journey, as BBers."

Source : https://forums.steroid.com/educational-threads/515868-short-cycles-excellent-educational-read.html

(@dvnfit666)

 

[dvnfit666]

Excellent poto
Garde moi tous ces articles précieusement
Bah perso je suis un convaincu des shorts cycles
Déjà rien que du fait de me dire que je reste que 2 semaines sous aas puis 2 à 4 off en pure détox , pour mon organisme ce n'est que du bon à prendre... Je ne me vois pas tapper 6 semaines d'affiler sous aas (je l'ai fait 1 fois 5 semaines ça m'a suffit...) ça me stresserai trop déjà de me dire que l'organisme se fait tapper dessus des semaines et des semaines
Là avec ce genre de proto y a déjà de quoi faire

 

[username86]

Intéressement l'article sur les short cycle mais niveau relance il est dis d'utiliser que du clomid ça me paraît peu sans hcg sans nolva (pas de risque de rebond ostrogene ?) Je suis sceptique lol

 

[dvnfit666]

Intéressement l'article sur les short cycle mais niveau relance il est dis d'utiliser que du clomid ça me paraît peu sans hcg sans nolva (pas de risque de rebond ostrogene ?) Je suis sceptique lol

Bill Roberts précise sur certaines molécules uniquement

 

[username86]

Bill Roberts précise sur certaines molécules uniquement

Oui donc pour certains cycles même pas de clomid ? (Ou j'ai mal lu lol)

 

[guest]

Intéressement l'article sur les short cycle mais niveau relance il est dis d'utiliser que du clomid ça me paraît peu sans hcg sans nolva (pas de risque de rebond ostrogene ?) Je suis sceptique lol

"Also Roberts has discussed how the pituitary is not shut down after only 14 days "on" and is even hypersensitive to GnRH form the hypothalamus and thus natural test recovery is very rapid.
Testicular shrinkage is not an issue with 2 week cycles so the testes respond very well to LH post cycle.
So the testes do stop putting out test but recovery is very rapid."

Voilà pourquoi je pense que ce serait de la sur-protection que d'utiliser du HCG durant un cycle de 2 semaines.
Concernant le rebond œstrogénique, si vraiment tu prends de fortes doses d'un composé qui aromatise facilement (genre 50mg de Dbol), là oui il peut être envisageable d'y inclure un AI comme l'exemestane à dosage modéré. Avec l'exemestane pas de rebond possible si il est bien dosé (contrairement à l'anastrozole).
Après sur un cycle de 2 semaines, je pense que ça ne doit pas être facile de faire un véritable contrôle sur les E2 comme on le ferait sur un cycle de 12 semaines. Puisque même si on part sur une dose donnée d'exemestane en préventif, le temps que les effets se stabilisent et que tu vérifies par pds l'ajustement à faire, le cycle sera fini ou presque...
Je pense que le mieux sur ce genre de cycle est de travailler avec des molécules ou une combinaison de molécules qui "en théorie" ne va pas envoyer ton ratio T/E2 ou E2/T dans l'espace. Après ce n'est que mon avis théorique, je n'ai pas de recul là-dessus et je ne suis pas un spécialiste comme B. Roberts...^^

 

[username86]

Merci pour éclaircissement en intra cure mais quand est il de la relance ? Seulement clomid ? Rien ? Relance normal ?

 

[guest]

Oui donc pour certains cycles même pas de clomid ? (Ou j'ai mal lu lol)

Là encore ça dépend de ce que tu prends, du taux de suppressivité théorique de ton cycle.
Si tu pars sur 50mg oxan ED je ne pense pas que ce soit indispensable (même si il faut en avoir sous le coude au cas où), maintenant si tu pars sur 20mg dbol ED + 100mg testo P EOD là ça va pas être la même limonade pour ton axe, et dans ce cas il faudra sûrement envisager un petit coup de pied au cul pour ton axe avec du clomid en fin de cycle.

Merci pour éclaircissement en intra cure mais quand est il de la relance ? Seulement clomid ? Rien ? Relance normal ?

Ben c'est du cas par cas là pour le coup...

 

[dvnfit666]

Perso si ses cycles courts me permettent d'éviter un max de faire des relances selon proto standard cad nolva clomid sur 3-4 semaines je suis preneur ... avec pds et suivi endo bien entendu , mais selon les expériences 2 semaines ON seulement ça laisse oeu de temps à ton axe d'être vraiment à plat et la relance naturelle devrait se faire facilement (surtout avec 4 semaines off droit derrière

Perso j'ai quand-même les boules de ces médicaments de relance , si on peut les éviter et que la machine continue à tourner normalement ou se relance d'elle-même gentiment je suis preneur

 

[username86]

Pour moi les prods de relance reviennent au même que les aas donc bon...tu cure avec des produits donc déjà c'est pas bon pour ton corps et derrière faut bien relancer donc ben tu prend ce qu'il faut pour ça..cest un.choix si tu décide de toucher au aas faut aussi savoir que derrière faudra toucher au AI, relance..etc si on veut rester dans une optique de santé saine faut pas toucher à tout ça ^^

 

[dvnfit666]

Pour moi les prods de relance reviennent au même que les aas donc bon...tu cure avec des produits donc déjà c'est pas bon pour ton corps et derrière faut bien relancer donc ben tu prend ce qu'il faut pour ça..cest un.choix si tu décide de toucher au aas faut aussi savoir que derrière faudra toucher au AI, relance..etc si on veut rester dans une optique de santé saine faut pas toucher à tout ça ^^

Oui c'est clair mais perso je sais pas mais les prods de relance me font plus peur (ES perte de vue notamment) BLackRogue à ce sujet avait raison comme même

 

[dvnfit666]

Après je sais pas si ces protos et le fait de relancer à chaque fois ce n'est pas si bon pour le coeur (il doit quand-même gérer des hauts et bas de taux hormonaux etc...) @havah ?

 

[guest]

@username86 : Après le poto @dvnfit666 a raison dans le sens où le GROS avantage pour moi de ce genre de proto est justement de s'éviter une relance. Donc l'idéal est de travailler avec une recette qui ne va pas coucher ton axe en 2/2.
Personnellement avec un proto 10mg dbol + 40mg oxan en une prise matinale je ne me fais pas trop de soucis par rapport à mon axe. Mais j'ai quand même du clomid sous le coude... Ocazou...

Oui c'est clair mais perso je sais pas mais les prods de relance me font plus peur (ES perte de vue notamment) BLackRogue à ce sujet avait raison comme même

Les effets de perte de vue apparaissent très rarement aux dosages auxquels on emploie le clomid poto. C'est pas à 25 ou 50mg ED sur 2 ou 4 semaines que tu cours un grand risque. Je dis pas que tu risques rien, mais les risques sont vraiment faibles.
Par contre à 200mg ED là ouais y'a moyen que ton corps réagisse mal.

 

[dvnfit666]

D'ailleurs les potos, je vais PDS semaine prochaine normalement pour voir où j'en suis hormonalement lol ça fait 2 protos de suite que je n'ai pas relancé, je ferai une comparaison avec les taux hormonaux après 2 mois de PCT lors de ma première cure et ça me prouvera si au niveau hormonal les choses n'ont pas été trop altérée (ce que je ne pense pas car au final avec une molécule et des protos assez safe...)

 

[havah]

bah non c'est pas terrible

mais si tu attends 2 mois chaque fois que ça relance solo tu perds vite tes gains

 

[guest]

D'ailleurs les potos, je vais PDS semaine prochaine normalement pour voir où j'en suis hormonalement lol ça fait 2 protos de suite que je n'ai pas relancé, je ferai une comparaison avec les taux hormonaux après 2 mois de PCT lors de ma première cure et ça me prouvera si au niveau hormonal les choses n'ont pas été trop altérée (ce que je ne pense pas car au final avec une molécule et des protos assez safe...)

Surtout tiens-nous au jus des résultats gros.

 

[username86]

Beh perso quitte à choisir je préfèrerai rester ON a l'année alors tu sais ahah comme ça plus question de produit de relance XD